tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post5397861733100846735..comments2024-01-13T21:31:23.388-05:00Comments on Reading While White: Good White People and GhostsReading While Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07807138877345669931noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-13207190729335146702017-10-16T12:50:06.594-04:002017-10-16T12:50:06.594-04:00I'm very glad the folks at RWW have taken a st...I'm very glad the folks at RWW have taken a stand to NOT delete, edit, erase or otherwise put a screen around the conversations going on in the site. Both here and over at The Secret Place review. <br />I want to echo what I think Yuyi is calling for ... an civil dialogue. The issue I see is that the idea of respect and civility is very different among the players in this drama we call diversity in children's literature. <br />For White people being civil means allowing racist, homophobic, sexist, ableist (all the ISH) language and ideas to go unanswered. To only talk to White people in private to help them learn to be better. <br />In the mean time, the ISH is still out there in the world, unaddressed and confirming long held beliefs that damage our society. <br />I consider a civil conversation one that leads our society forward, wherein the most vulnerable are heard, believed, and respected and the most privileged listen and learn. Because - and here is a HUGE shocker - those of us who live and work on various issues of representation are the experts. <br /><br />Laura Jimenez<br />AKA BooktossAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-34271777770123960462017-10-15T15:51:07.136-04:002017-10-15T15:51:07.136-04:00As the discussion here continues,I am reviewing my...As the discussion here continues,I am reviewing my notes from the last days at the classes I am taking ( at the Autonomous University of Mexico,UNAM), and more specifically the presentation I mentioned above by Amandine Fulchirone, and I wanted to offer my reflection about it. This discussion is important to me since I am a creator of children’s books as well, and as I am learning that most of us find it difficult to talk about what is happening and what we are needing or feeling, because instead we tend to want to direct the conversation around what the other has done. So, I am going to say here some of the things I have in my mind and what I am trying to learn from discussions such as this:<br /><br />1) We need to name things. If we can’t name feelings, actions, and consequences—if people can’t say this book misrepresents me and my way of life, or this hurts, or you are not seeing me—then we erase voices again. Silence does not heal, it only reproduces the violence that it silences. So, how do we create conditions for everybody to have a voice and dialog? How can we create the spaces for the often unheard voices to break up the silence, to open up their hearts and name the pain, and even cry when things hurt?<br /><br />2) This seems to me to be a discussion about justice, so, I find it necessary to reflect and ask, and try to have an answer to the question What Is Justice? I will tell you that during Amandine’s presentation, one of the thoughts that was offered is that for the women in the project for healing the violence that has been committed on them during the civil war, justice was defined also as to be accompanied—to be alone no more. So, I wonder, here, in our community of children’s literature (but also in the world), how can we accompany each other? And mostly, how can we be companions to those who are constantly marginalized and erased? Amandine mentioned something that touched me deeply: that we can not accompany others if we are not in the process of transformation ourselves.<br /><br />3) I take it as the ultimate objective of my work, my books, my creation, to learn how to disarticulated oppression. Do I know how to do that? Not without people like you to interpellate me, and most of us can’t do it without the community to open up the spaces to do so with dignity. That is why we need to hear the difference, to hear what the other is saying to us. Could we make it our work description—the heart of our profession—to listen?<br /><br />4) I am learning that it is not enough to change our thoughts, we need to let our bodies live a different experience, and mostly, I am learning, we do it by collectivizing our process. We cannot do it alone and all by ourselves. We hardly transform ourselves by going alone to the mountain and asking for insight; instead we do it by moving and recreating ourselves from a place of individual power and into a place of connection with the many others. I want to think that what we need is a process in which, yes, we might learn to take care of our wounds in private first, but only to become strong enough to bring it to light so that we can make significant changes to our world.<br /><br />5) I am also learning here that the objective of these discussions is not to eliminate the moments of tension, but rather to accompany each other so that we can evolve. Without tension, we will just stay in our own unquestioned state of privilege where things are ok as long as nobody messes with our comfort. <br /><br />6) I have many more thoughts and questions in my mind, but I am still working trough them. Just to mention one last one, one of the things that impressed me the most from this project that I have been using as an example, was when Amandine told us how these Guatemalan women were working towards life not death, and healing horrific pain towards happiness and well being; their method, they called it, pedagogy of life. It made me think, do we have a name for our work here in the wold of children’s literature? What would it be?Yuyi Moraleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05732580530102114027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-79568154693033780842017-10-15T10:50:01.183-04:002017-10-15T10:50:01.183-04:00This post reminded me too much of this story from ...This post reminded me too much of this story from the veterinary medicine field. http://www.animalwelfareissues.com/veterinarian-commits-suicide-with-drugs-to-euthanize-dogs-after-backlash-from-tv-interview/<br /><br />This post to me was more cruel than it was constructive. And this isn't me trying to protect the white person. It is about the consequences and the end result of what we write, be it a book or a blog post. It also made me think of this.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URvC6T_xhE0&feature=youtu.be<br /><br />If we are not prepared to sit down and say these things to the person, to their face, then maybe we shouldn't write them. And if we are cruel to people then we build more walls and we lose. We need diverse books by diverse authors--that is the goal. How does this post get us there? Raina Telgemeier already regrets this book. And she has already demonstrated that there is a blind spot in the industry that needs to be fixed. How does this criticism of her here help us move forward toward the ultimate goal? <br /><br />And from watching the entire video I don't believe that Amanda Jacobs Foust, Jack Baur, Thi Bui, Mariko Tamaki or Justin Hall were surprised by the question that focused the conversation on Ghosts. I believe they were all prepared and they all had something they wanted to say about the topic. You say you are listening, but are you? <br />Moyridhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09109060979165835871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-72433366411133388872017-10-15T04:36:19.048-04:002017-10-15T04:36:19.048-04:00Wanting to dismantle white supremacy and thinking ...Wanting to dismantle white supremacy and thinking that publicly shaming colleagues is unnecessary and cruel aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think anyone has apologized for the content of Raina's book or her responses to the questions asked at the panel. For me, at least, the problem is that you decided to publicly scold and insult both the author and the moderators, and then to lecture those who think that was a crappy thing to do. <br /><br />Referring to AJF as arrogant, to their arguments as nonsensical, claiming that "white people don't have to prepare or analyze, or take time to understand people's point of view" which heavily implies that JB and AJF were somewhat incompetent - none of that was necessary. <br /><br />Telling those of us saying "that was seriously not cool," that we need to re-read the article and that our objections are clearly due to hurt feelings or feeling uncomfortable - also not necessary. <br /><br />Claiming to want to spark a dialogue but not giving JB and AJF any advanced information about this article and assuming bad faith on the part of the commentators - unnecessary. <br /><br />Implying that 15 minutes of less-than-stellar discussion on a panel is somehow the equivalent of a man who tortured people for years (Arpaio), or someone who drove a car into a crowd of protesters, or Donald freaking Trump is unnecessary and deeply offensive. <br /><br />And finally....several people have stated that NOT discussing this panel would reinforce the status quo and center whiteness. That may be true, but given that it's impossible to discuss every single example of negative behavior (since we would never do anything else - I can think of at least 15 instances of behavior that promotes the status quo and reinforces white supremacy that I've seen since I woke up this morning, and I'm positive that there were dozens more that I missed) we pick and choose what we're going to highlight. <br /><br />You decided to highlight this. <br /><br />You decided that whatever lesson could be learned from your article outweighed any negative impact on these individuals (and no, I don't just mean feeling uncomfortable - you do know that people have gotten harassed and even fired from their jobs based on things that they said - or were claimed to have said - online, right? That may be unlikely in this case, but that possibility should go into any calculus of determining when to directly name individuals). <br /><br />So own that choice. <br /><br />Don't pretend like there was no other course of action, no other way to make the same point without being cruel to members of the library and author communities. Of course there were other ways, but you chose this one. Own it. <br /><br />And please, stop patting yourself on the back and humble-bragging about how "woke" you are by throwing your friends under the bus.KeladryofMindelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15543567364267895641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-23276404741533746172017-10-14T21:45:29.008-04:002017-10-14T21:45:29.008-04:00It's irresponsible journalism not to reach out...It's irresponsible journalism not to reach out to ALL the subjects beforehand. It's shady librarianship to call out your peers as though their presentation was the problem--which it wasnt. It's bad allyship to make this about your white feelings instead of providing a platform for people of color to share their thoughts and responses to the panel. Your white voice? Don't care about it. At all. This isn't how you "collect bad whites." It's how you destroy anyone who *is* providing a platform for difficult, diverse conversations. <br /><br />Being a white ally is essential--but the way you're doing it? Fetishizing the culture of allyship? You're making it about *you* and not about the underrepresentation in comics. You're making it about calling out white peers instead of having a meaningful dialogue with them. You're spending more time on what the white people did wrong than on lifting up the voices of the people of color and queer people on the panel. I notice you don't mention Justin Hall whatsoever, on that note. <br /><br />There can, and should, be meaningful, constructive, honest dialogue about representation in literature. White people need to tell stories responsibly. No work is above critique, but within that critique, the motivation needs to be pure, not like what you've done here, which is focusing on getting your Good White Person Cookies. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16071306357254785786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-78823479025823239552017-10-14T15:42:25.501-04:002017-10-14T15:42:25.501-04:00I'm reading what Debbie's written, and ref...I'm reading what Debbie's written, and reflecting on how this conversation has looped into a rut of centering whiteness in multifaceted ways (and reflecting on how I've contributed to that--overanalyzing reactions, and reactions to reactions, and participating in focusing the conversation not on the issue raised but on the manner in which it was raised--a classic technique in perpetuating racism).<br /><br />(And yes, I recognize that more of ME TALKING is more WHITENESS TALKING. I'm going to leave this comment and then walk away, at least for a while.)<br /><br />Looking upstream in this post, Yuyi Morales left a really valuable comment that I think has gotten lost. Yuyi asks: "What would happen if here in children’s literature, we could also hold a principle of taboo conversation where we could be strengthen by our willingness to talk, to question, to respond, and to be respected for such an openness more than by our insistence to defend ourselves and or work."<br /><br />Yuyi cites a group research project based in Guatemala in which the participants held a principle that there would be no taboo conversation, and challenges us to imagine that principle applied to the children's literature world. I highly recommend that you read her whole comment, see above.<br /><br />In the People's Institute for Survival and Beyond's Undoing Racism workshops, trainers pose this thought experiment: If all neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK members, etc., boarded a spaceship and left Earth for a different locale today, would racism disappear? The answer, of course, is not even a little bit.<br /><br />What's remarkable to me is that we in the children's literature realm have essentially achieved this. In these online circles, at least, I've encountered exactly two (2) Trump supporters. And they are not neo-nazis. And yet, racism is so, so present in our field. If you doubt it, look at the CCBC stats of books published by/about people of color (http://blog.leeandlow.com/2017/03/30/the-diversity-gap-in-childrens-book-publishing-2017/). And make sure you look at authorship as compared to content (http://ccblogc.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-ownvoices-gap-in-african-american.html). So what gives? So much of our industry is composed of Good White People. Like me.<br /><br />So what would it look like if, as Yuyi asks, we held a principle of No Taboo Conversation in the children's literature world?<br /><br />I only have the beginnings of ideas formed about this. But I think one thing that might happen is that we'd value the pain of the people repeatedly rammed by the car of racism more than we value the pain of the driver who feels really, really uncomfortable about the fact that they just hit someone. We'd start to see our actions align with the sentiment that Native kids really DO matter. That Latinx kids really DO matter. Because until our actions align with our words and intentions, they don't. And keeping the unwritten rule that some things are just too taboo to talk about feeds into perpetuating a world in which only white kids matter.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-6974718622769838042017-10-14T15:39:05.945-04:002017-10-14T15:39:05.945-04:00I appreciated Amy's frank, raw, open point of ...I appreciated Amy's frank, raw, open point of view. I have not personally seen a white person so fully acknowledge the problem of white privilege and their responsibility in it. It was refreshing. Reading the comments, I was reminded of the recent controversy at the Dr. Seuss museum in which authors threatened to boycott a book festival because of a racially-offensive mural. Critics said, "Couldn't the authors have written a letter?" Far be it from me to tell people who've been offended how they should respond to the offense. Sometimes bs needs to be called out. The problem lies not with the messenger but with the offender. In this case, RT put the work out there, she's promoting it, doing events so she must accept the criticism that comes with it. POC of color have been living with the pain of racism forever so white people can surely handle it for a little while. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-25509693879288372952017-10-14T12:33:43.164-04:002017-10-14T12:33:43.164-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Monica Edingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03924540264341924291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-81792252721777744792017-10-14T12:11:09.882-04:002017-10-14T12:11:09.882-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Nina Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03363775984160309811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-89052319172764193682017-10-14T11:23:46.490-04:002017-10-14T11:23:46.490-04:00This is absolutely true. But I worry about childre...This is absolutely true. But I worry about children who are being hurt not just from books, but from well-meaning white people like the colleagues I mentioned who must evolve and change. The reality of the children of color in my school is that most of their teachers are white. And they need to change now --- the sooner the better for these children's well-being. My post was thinking about that. If it is indeed more white privileging, my apologies. I will try to do better. Monica Edingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03924540264341924291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-17167818624933262322017-10-14T11:05:40.947-04:002017-10-14T11:05:40.947-04:00As this thread has evolved, it seems that it has l...As this thread has evolved, it seems that it has lost sight of the readers of this or any book that misrepresents or appropriates something. <br /><br />There's a strong "this kind of post hurts the teacher/librarian/person who is trying but now is retreating" --- and with it, a suggestion that nobody is helped by a post as direct as Amy's. <br /><br />It is a "if you speak this way" you're not helping, so you shouldn't do it again. <br /><br />It centers a segment of the population AND seems to forget about those who ARE helped by this direct analysis. <br /><br />The discussion, at present, is over there with Raina. <br /><br />Meanwhile, teachers are using that book in classrooms all over the country. <br /><br />Some teachers---a very tiny number, I'd bet---have chosen NOT to use the book because of the reviews of the Native and Latinx content. <br /><br />A fact: the vast majority of people love Raina's work. That's why her books are consistently in the lists of best sellers. They're doing a lot of mis-educating of all kids who are asked to read them. Or who choose to read them. Are we inadvertently privileging Raina's pain and embarrassment over their well-being? <br />Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-75977455403449835832017-10-14T09:22:13.449-04:002017-10-14T09:22:13.449-04:00Thi, thank you for commenting. We appreciate you ...Thi, thank you for commenting. We appreciate you assuming positive intent. We should have better ensured you the opportunity to speak and weigh in on the piece, especially given that Amy uses your contribution to make a point. We take responsibility for the negative impact of running a piece that does not give you agency to speak on your own behalf, and represents you as a victim.<br /><br />We understand paraphrasing you rather than quoting you removes the specific words you chose. We’re sorry.<br /><br />Mariko - we do not want to assume anything about how this post has landed with you, but we offer you the same apology.<br /><br />We are listening, reflecting, and learning.<br /><br />Sam Bloom<br />Allie Jane Bruce<br />Amy Cheney<br />Ernie Cox<br />Elisa Gall<br />Nina Lindsay<br />Megan SchliesmanReading While Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07807138877345669931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-42449697782561674242017-10-14T08:26:49.313-04:002017-10-14T08:26:49.313-04:00I'm currently part of a predominantly white te...I'm currently part of a predominantly white team of fourth grade teachers and figuring out how to support class conversations, rethink curriculum materials (esp books), reconsider our approach to topics centered around race, and address kids of color (and their parents) who are questioning rightly has been hard work. One of the most challenging aspects I find as a white ally/accomplice is how to support the nudging of some of my white colleagues from throughout the school (I referenced my team as that is where I have first hand experience with this more regularly), especially those who don't appear to be as informed as those of us who read this blog to a place where they are able to recognize that they do not have all the answers, cannot necessarily reach closure, can't "fix" every situation, cannot always go on previous experiences regarding other sorts of inclusion/exclusion (social aggression of many sorts from their vast experiences as veteran teachers), and more. These are caring folks --- after all we work in a caring profession. They feel competent as carers, feel proud of their skill in this, see it often as a talent in fact. And so when they feel threatened (say by something like this post) I've observed retreating, hostility, turning off listening to the conversations, and sadly no change for the better. Even when they aren't hostile, I find that certain of the veteran White teachers reinforce each other and getting them to a place of less certainty, an understanding that closure isn't going to happen, and a recognition of the way their presentation of White fragility is going to take time. They definitely want to do better, but I see them falling back on their own experiences, knowledge, and behind it I sense pride as veteran, caring teachers. When this is challenged personally it is hard and too often I think they only dig in, silently feeling they know better because of their long experience. And it is all of this that makes me wonder how this post and similar actions will help those like these white colleagues of mine move to a better place to support our kids and families of color rather than just turn off and retreat. I do trust that change will happen over time, but I guess I'm concerned about what is happening now and how to get more of my white colleagues to be farther along on this path than they are. <br /><br />Monica Edingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03924540264341924291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-87867490241603550772017-10-13T19:29:53.433-04:002017-10-13T19:29:53.433-04:00I was angry and sad to read this post. The nature ...I was angry and sad to read this post. The nature of the take down--a play by play of someone's personal failings, with a time stamp for where you can watch them become fragile and almost cry--feels utterly mean and unnecessary. Writers put out work with the understanding that the work must stand on its own, be loved or hated or misunderstood or analyzed in ways we did not anticipate. Reviews are fair. Critique of one's work is fair. But when we agree to speak in public, it is an act of trust that is not always easy. And to have one's participation in a conversation ripped apart in this way is enough to shut a person up forever. Or discourage others unsure of themselves from speaking for fear of saying the wrong thing. So much for dialogue and evolution. <br /><br />There are many salient points in the post and I will assume positive intent. It is an intellectual dissection in the name of understanding white supremacy at the expense of an author and two librarians. I shudder to imagine when I'll be up next on the cutting table. For now, I am represented here as some kind of victim, not given a chance to speak. My book stands up on its own, thanks. When I don't have something important to say, I listen. It's something you can do on stage. I did not miss the irony of having what I did say paraphrased instead of quoted. Nor the irony in the time I have devoted to processing my feelings about this post today instead of supporting a POC cartoonist, supporting friends fighting deportations and the dismantling of health care for the poor, working on a book about climate change, or taking care of myself and my family.<br /><br />Let's make better comics, yes. And keep pushing for diversity and voices that have been talked over. And sit in our discomfort so that we can grow. But let's not make sacrificial examples of each other.Thi Buihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10725214622904234381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-10920281642076495972017-10-13T16:23:19.685-04:002017-10-13T16:23:19.685-04:00Jill -- all I can say is, read the post again. Re...Jill -- all I can say is, read the post again. Read our comments again. This is a call-in. It's a public call-in, for sure. But it's a call-in.<br /><br />I get it. I've been called in many, many times and responded to it many, many times as if it were a call-out.<br /><br />We are calling in as loudly as we can. We cannot control whether that lands with people as a call-out. Especially when we white people are conditioned so strongly to respond to call-ins as if they were call-outs, with a plethora of sophisticated defense mechanisms.<br /><br />Once again, I come back to Bayard Rustin: "To be afraid is to behave as if the truth were not true."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-7664389158268485372017-10-13T14:39:50.671-04:002017-10-13T14:39:50.671-04:00To be clear, I agree 100% that white people need t...To be clear, I agree 100% that white people need to be get very uncomfortable, feel hurt, take full responsibility for this work, and call each other in. Also please note that I am in no way defending Ghosts or RT's words at the panel. What I take issue with is that this was not presented as a dialogue between the author and the two librarians involved. They were made aware of the article only a day before publication, on a federal holiday when neither was checking their work email. I think this argument would be made more effectively if it had been presented as a dialogue. I think that JB and AJF truly could have contributed valuable information, including potentially modeling how white people can self-reflect, make public mistakes, apologize, and do better. How does publicly shaming two librarians who on the whole are advancing social justice, diversity, and inclusion in publishing and our profession lift up the people shamed and erased by RT's work? I don't see it. I don't see the need to rush this to publication without taking the time to dialogue with JB and AJF before hand. The panel was back in May, it's not like this was time sensitive. I believe strongly in calling in versus calling out. This article is unlike any other I've read on this blog because of the calling out approach taken. As a reader, in my opinion it doesn't rise to the quality of other pieces published here.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893378671973096861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-62112243326245369952017-10-13T12:40:34.683-04:002017-10-13T12:40:34.683-04:00I want to add another thought, to express what I a...I want to add another thought, to express what I appreciate about Amy's piece, as difficult as it is.<br /><br />When valid criticism is offered of a book that exposes the racism inherent in Whiteness, we are conditioned as White people to defend the creator and deflect the criticism in very specific ways that we may not consciously even be aware of. And when in White circles we try to break open an examination of this practice, there are very specific ways we shut that conversation down. We end up spiraling into an examination of ourselves that takes our attention further and further away from what generated it.<br /><br />There are many people hurt through this whole process. But White supremacy guides the White gaze to circle the wagons round White people. I won't participate in that. We need to learn how to have these conversations, publicly: in our profession, in order to make and share better books for children; in the world, to be responsible citizens. Nina Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03363775984160309811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-37115453119802665382017-10-13T11:29:13.020-04:002017-10-13T11:29:13.020-04:00Keladry, Allison, Jill, I understand why this feel...Keladry, Allison, Jill, I understand why this feels uncomfortable; and why it must feel terrible for some of those named in the piece (who were given a heads up about the publication). As to public shaming, and a chance to respond, a few thoughts:<br /><br />This was a public discussion, recorded and shared. As any good panel will, it has generated ongoing discussion. I think what Amy's article does that is so important is bring the ongoing conversation out of spaces where White people tend to "caucus" to defend ourselves, and asks us all to reflect. She does a good job of putting this piece in context, calling on all of us White people to examine ourselves and say: "When have I done this?" We all have. This is an opportunity to discuss these issues. <br /><br />It would not have been possible to share this discussion without naming those involved, because they are named in the panel; there is no way to examine the discussion without knowing who they are. The option would have been not to share the object lesson at all, and that in itself is an act affirming the status quo. Amy is asking us to confront this openly, as we do on this blog.<br /><br />I have taken two related, but different, responsibilities here. One is to support my colleagues named in this piece, as individuals and professionals. The other is to ensure we can use this discussion to move us forward. If I let the first responsibility swallow the second, I fail in both. <br /><br />To both responsibilities, I'd ask you to read and reflect on the piece as an object lesson of ALL of us.Nina Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03363775984160309811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-77374157020786736702017-10-13T00:39:44.504-04:002017-10-13T00:39:44.504-04:00Jill, Allison, Keladry--I would be lying if I said...Jill, Allison, Keladry--I would be lying if I said I said I had all the answers. Some of these, Amy can speak to. The big one--whether this moves us forward--I believe it does. I truly do. But I won't lie; at the end of the day, I don't know. I can't know. I'm not privy to the inner workings of anybody's heart or mind.<br /><br />I do know that I've seen this panel a thousand times before. The cast changes; the content does not. People are criticized privately; publicly, we stick to vagueries and generalities. White people learn, over and over again, that we can preserve our comfort at the expense of people of color and First/Native Nations people. The system perpetuates. And Native children and children of color are shamed, over and over and over again, by this system.<br /><br />If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got. We need to do something differently. What's true is true.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-75472679453193858682017-10-13T00:12:26.249-04:002017-10-13T00:12:26.249-04:00I think the points in this article could have been...I think the points in this article could have been made (and made more effectively) without the personal attacks and public shaming. To me, this article feels more about centering the author as one of the "good white people" she mentions in the title and asserting herself in the counter-productive battle of who's the wokest. I have no doubt that if given the chance JB and AJF would have been totally open to discussing these issues. I know them to be thoughtful, reflective people, who care deeply about social justice and have a desire to do the uncomfortable work of dismantling white supremacy, including accepting critique and evaluating their own biases. But they were not even given a sincere chance to make a comment or provide a response, which to me seems unethical at best, like defamation at worst. Couldn't this have been handled more meaningfully via "calling-in"? Does the approach taken in this article really move us forward in this work?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893378671973096861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-28627889836188384762017-10-12T23:37:32.507-04:002017-10-12T23:37:32.507-04:00This article makes some really valuable points, bu...This article makes some really valuable points, but man, I have to say the critique of the author's fellow librarians seems........ really personal. I've never seen anyone get called out on this blog- there's usually more of a spirit of self-reflection and personal responsibility, rather than criticizing others. I'm surprised to see it, and I wonder if the same points could have been made here without getting so specific. Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06628530227439660832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-1794253644793314352017-10-12T23:16:52.860-04:002017-10-12T23:16:52.860-04:00Did JB and AJF give their consent to be used as an...Did JB and AJF give their consent to be used as an object lesson in this way, and were they given the opportunity to view the post and/or respond before it was posted? If not, I feel like this really pushes the boundaries of professional ethics and feels much more like a public shaming than a desire for an open and honest discussion.KeladryofMindelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15543567364267895641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-7882312156332247452017-10-12T21:21:24.512-04:002017-10-12T21:21:24.512-04:00This is all so fascinating. One takeaway that I ha...This is all so fascinating. One takeaway that I have from reading about this and other panel-gates is sort of wondering what we want panels to be going forward. <br />One version seems to me to be putting together a panel of all like-minded people who will have the audience nodding their heads in agreement with much of what is said. <br />The other version is essentially a free-for-all where Q&A sessions could become quasi-riots because moderators are not allowed or willing to tone police or ask for calm. I'm not sure either version moves us very far forward in sharing information or understanding. But such seems to be the world of today.Jamalia Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16621857781764536581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-440296341353770062017-10-12T21:16:30.077-04:002017-10-12T21:16:30.077-04:00And I will echo what Allie Jane Bruce says above: ...And I will echo what Allie Jane Bruce says above: "As for Raina, or any of the White people involved in this panel, if you happen to be reading this, know that I have been there. You are not alone in whatever thoughts you are having right now. Let us know if you want to work on making this right. We can help you strengthen muscles that fight racism and weaken those that perpetuate white fragility. Everyone with RWW is here to help. I realize this sounds super condescending but I mean it. It is so, tremendously, liberating to detach oneself from a self-image that is Too Good To Make Racist Mistakes."<br /><br />Amy Cheneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052462656135019175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-72826577065319880802017-10-12T14:49:35.768-04:002017-10-12T14:49:35.768-04:00This entire experience is 100% uncomfortable for a...This entire experience is 100% uncomfortable for all involved. It's not pretty. I'm sure many White people, including myself (too numerous times to mention) have been in this situation many times. It is painful. The shame and fear is intense. <br /><br />This is NOT about the people involved. This IS about their behavior. <br /><br />This is NOT a reflection on their value, contributions, professionalism, fantastic work, etc. It is in NO way any reflection on their work, valuable information on the panel, etc. This is NOTHING about them getting fired. If it was I would be unemployable for all the inadvertant and unconsious ways I've been and continue to be racist. <br /><br /> It is, hopefully, something that can be used to educate all White people, including the people involved, including myself. I learned a lot by looking deeply into what I experienced at the time as painful and uncomfortable without understanding all the specifics. <br /><br />It is painful to expose and see inadvertant racism. In fact, when Booktoss above pushed back at me, I had a reaction. I went into exactly what I describe in my piece (BUT... Blah, blah, blah). I have now gotten to a point I can say thank you to Booktoss. I am amazed at all the ways I see I still defend, protect and work to make White people feel comfortable and/or excuse the BEHAVIOR - which was, in my opinion, 100% unconscious. I can also see that not highlighting Mariko and Thi's books are ANOTHER way that I did not promote, honor and respect people of color as I aim to do. Thank you for pointing that out as well. I want to reiterate I had to go through the process I outline in the piece above from a few comments. This is ongoing work. Amy Cheneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052462656135019175noreply@blogger.com