tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post9094183248126562891..comments2024-01-13T21:31:23.388-05:00Comments on Reading While White: "Do I have the right to write about ______?"Reading While Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07807138877345669931noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-81118914812063106042015-09-30T05:55:21.049-04:002015-09-30T05:55:21.049-04:00My Mother the Cheerleader and Bone by Bone by Bone...My Mother the Cheerleader and Bone by Bone by Bone were eligible my Newbery year so not only did I looked at them very closely, but I got highly favorable feedback from African Americans readers as well.Monica Edingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03924540264341924291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-52243224115731370102015-09-29T20:57:52.348-04:002015-09-29T20:57:52.348-04:00The discussion about My Mother the Cheerleader rem...The discussion about My Mother the Cheerleader reminds me of my own negative reaction to The Boy in the Striped Pajamas - which sets up readers to feel empathy mainly for the naïve son of the Nazi prison warden, without much focus on the fact that millions of other people are dying. <br /><br />Written by an Irish novelist in less than 3 days, it has sold millions of copies and was made into a movie. Coincidentally, a novel by a Jewish author, originally published in Yiddish in 1940, was translated into English & published the same year as Striped Pajamas. Yet that book (Emil and Karl) is virtually unknown, is not taught in schools, is never requested, and wasn’t made into a movie, but features 2 boys of the same age, is set roughly in the same time & place, and (to me, in any case) seems more authentic to the Jewish experience. <br /><br />Although Boyne has said he aimed to write a parable of the German’s willful ignorance of the Holocaust, for teens and children reading this, it’s the death of the poor little son of a Nazi (when he puts on the striped pajamas) that becomes the focus of the reader’s empathy, not the Jewish boy nor his entire community who are in the concentration camp. <br /><br />Knowing how much this book upset me, I can see how the Cheerleader book would upset people who lived through or are descendants of the folks described and perhaps used & similarly slighted in that story. ericahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14334829596777284344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-50821965064296097712015-09-29T18:44:45.234-04:002015-09-29T18:44:45.234-04:00Did you read SHADOWSHAPER? There's a part in i...Did you read SHADOWSHAPER? There's a part in it where the protagonist is having a terse discussion with an aunt about the aunt's racism regarding dark skin and kinky hair. And another part where the protagonist and her brother (I think) are talking about machismo ways of their grandfather. I think Older handles both discussions with candor, but in a seamless way. Debbie Reesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972409006633565859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-18577245650352292692015-09-29T15:55:50.265-04:002015-09-29T15:55:50.265-04:00I'm half way through ALL AMERICAN BOYS right n...I'm half way through ALL AMERICAN BOYS right now. :-)<br /><br />Reminds me slightly of BLACK AND WHITE by Paul Volponi. Did anyone read that one? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205876924503719240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-34652509320106090232015-09-29T15:34:14.322-04:002015-09-29T15:34:14.322-04:00There's a new book I've been hearing a lot...There's a new book I've been hearing a lot about lately that does a lot of groundbreaking work in naming and unpacking whiteness and white privilege. It's ALL AMERICAN BOYS by Jason Reynolds and Brendan Kiely and it launches TODAY. (There's a copy waiting for me at my local book store.) I can't wait to read it -- and discuss it here on this blog. <br />K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-72087937687234082352015-09-29T15:18:13.776-04:002015-09-29T15:18:13.776-04:00Really good thoughts here, Jonathon. It would ind...Really good thoughts here, Jonathon. It would indeed be very painful to live in and unpack a character's problematic thoughts and the racist impacts of his/her actions, even if no racism is intended. Almost as painful as trying to unpack one's OWN problematic thoughts and racist impacts. But this is work we white people need to do.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-3288348515203200112015-09-29T13:00:26.400-04:002015-09-29T13:00:26.400-04:00I think it would be quite a challenge for a White ...I think it would be quite a challenge for a White author to do that, Jonathan, but I'd like to see someone try. <br /><br />Not the same exactly but related: Hans Peter Richter did this kind of writing about antisemitism back in the 1970s. His book FRIEDRICH shows the events leading up to the Holocaust through the eyes of an innocent young child observing changes in the life of his friend and next-door neighbor. I WAS THERE is an autobiographical novel based on his own experiences as part of the Hitler Youth. Both books are quite eye-opening and well-worth tracking down.K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-9535740035436244092015-09-29T12:34:10.979-04:002015-09-29T12:34:10.979-04:00I've read both MY MOTHER THE CHEERLEADER and B...I've read both MY MOTHER THE CHEERLEADER and BONE BY BONE BY BONE, both of which I think are great reads and can bring a lot to this conversation. I think they only be problematic when a pattern emerges, and the pattern is this--<br /><br />When the white main characters are somehow immune from all the racism of their upbringing and never internalize any negative attitudes, behaviors, thoughts, actions, or words; when they can clearly see how VERY WRONG racism is. They are always gifted with this perspective; they never have to earn it. They never have to divest themselves of an inherited worldview that doesn't jive with what they come to believe through their own experience.<br /><br />I don't think white authors intend this, but such characters kind of become an embodiment of liberal white guilt, a way to teach young readers that racism is wrong. And I think such books do teach that racism is wrong, but I often feel like they pull punches because they neither present racism from a black perspective or from a racist white perspective. I understand the political necessity of writing the artificially enlightened perspective--what white author wants to characterize their protagonist as racist?--but it presents a warped sense of reality when you read it in book after book after book. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205876924503719240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-15955788077669405372015-09-29T11:58:07.302-04:002015-09-29T11:58:07.302-04:00I see what you mean, Allie, thanks for the clarifi...I see what you mean, Allie, thanks for the clarification. Agreed on rape as a literary device. Obviously, I blanked that part of the book out completely. K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-64387532448616539722015-09-29T11:06:21.350-04:002015-09-29T11:06:21.350-04:00Oh, and Anne, let me know if you find any Bone By ...Oh, and Anne, let me know if you find any Bone By Bone By Bone reviews by people of color. I'd be hugely interested too.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-89542132257733243872015-09-29T11:05:30.809-04:002015-09-29T11:05:30.809-04:00Yeah, the mother was raped by the bad guys, the ly...Yeah, the mother was raped by the bad guys, the lynchers.<br /><br />I remember feeling uncomfortable with the Ruby Bridges passages because of how the author wrote about her--she came across as very pure and noble and tragic, all of which I found dehumanizing. That's what I objected to. But maybe my memory is off... it's been a while since I read it.<br /><br />You're really calling me in (as opposed to calling me out) on my objection to dehumanizing racists, though. You're absolutely right that I was wrong to try to "other" a racist person, when tomorrow, that might be me, and I will never undo my own internal racism and biases if I think of myself as a "good one, not like the others."<br /><br />I didn't phrase it well, but my real objection is not to humanizing a racist. I object to using *rape* to humanize a racist. Rape is real and serious and not a "trick" that an author should pull out of his/her pocket to make us feel sympathy for a character. Also, in real life, a rape would most likely NOT magically turn a horribly bigoted person into a non-bigot.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-5988933485065616122015-09-29T10:23:18.530-04:002015-09-29T10:23:18.530-04:00And I like the "it mistakes critical respons...And I like the "it mistakes critical response for prohibition" line. Nina, you are making a real dent in my book budget with all your recommendations!K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-18590598674376228722015-09-29T09:18:49.100-04:002015-09-29T09:18:49.100-04:00Boy, I don't even remember a rape scene in tha...Boy, I don't even remember a rape scene in that book, Allie.<br /><br />And I wouldn't say Ruby Bridges was "used" in the story. There would be no way to tell it without her being in it in the way she was. Are you objecting to the fact that she was a real person? I myself have always wondered who those people were who screamed and spat at Black children walking into schools (who were, in fact, being "used" to integrate the schools). I always look at their angry faces in those historical photos and wonder what their lives were like and what led them to be there on the sidelines. <br /><br />Is there a problem with humanizing racists, or making us feel sympathy for a racist character? I fear that when we portray racists as all bad or irredeemable, they become stock, cardboard characters that we can just dismiss as "other." That makes it possible for a White reader to feel superior to that character, and to think: "That's not me." when, in fact, it very well could be. If we want authors to explore Whiteness, they have to be able explore all aspects of Whiteness, even the parts we'd rather not think about. Look how upset people got about Atticus Finch 2.0. K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-56836342425239800622015-09-28T22:37:23.930-04:002015-09-28T22:37:23.930-04:00BONE BY BONE BY BONE is the title that came to min...BONE BY BONE BY BONE is the title that came to mind when I read your request for books examining whiteness, Allie. I reread it last winter and was struck by the visceral and searing portrayal of David's father's vicious racism, how the threat of his cruelty, ignorance and violence haunts his son's life, how David is torn between his love for and desire to be loved by his father and his revulsion at his father's attitudes and behavior, especially towards his black friend, Malcolm.<br /><br />I haven't been able to find any critiques by reviewers of color; I'd be very interested to see how the portrayal of race reads through other eyes and what I might have missed.Anne Sibley O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084188995698656091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-29060678865355277402015-09-28T20:54:44.261-04:002015-09-28T20:54:44.261-04:00I remember this one! It was definitely interestin...I remember this one! It was definitely interesting, and I remember that there was a love/loathe binary reaction to it. I did like certain aspects of it, by also remember feeling that Ruby Bridges had been "used" and that the rape scene was irresponsible in that it was a device used to make us feel sympathy for a racist character.<br /><br />I also remember reading BONE BY BONE BY BONE by Tony Johnston around the same time and finding it much superior to MY MOTHER THE CHEERLEADER. I'd have to go back and take another look at that to see if it holds up...Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-34893856376282110242015-09-28T20:41:49.702-04:002015-09-28T20:41:49.702-04:00Yes! This! This! "the moment in which the ...Yes! This! This! "the moment in which the imagination's sympathy encounters its limit." That's what I'm trying to say when I say "examine your whiteness." Their way is prettier... but mine is more straightforward, let's face it!!Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-72679899478730625762015-09-28T20:39:53.595-04:002015-09-28T20:39:53.595-04:00Thanks for the apology, it's appreciated and a...Thanks for the apology, it's appreciated and accepted. Thanks for a great discussion.Allie Jane Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10322238221808680397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-24728507145801785682015-09-28T18:23:56.827-04:002015-09-28T18:23:56.827-04:00OK, I got. There are 111 total books created by A...OK, I got. There are 111 total books created by Asians.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205876924503719240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-67195058890732918072015-09-28T15:44:41.719-04:002015-09-28T15:44:41.719-04:00Thanks for the link, Ellen! Lost of illuminating r...Thanks for the link, Ellen! Lost of illuminating reading there.K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-58604076734087350772015-09-28T15:38:46.059-04:002015-09-28T15:38:46.059-04:00I can see how that would be confusing, Jonathan. T...I can see how that would be confusing, Jonathan. There are 49 books so far in 2015 that are about Asian/Asian Pacific Americans. Of those 49, 21 are by Asian/Asian Pacific American authors and/or illustrators. In addition to those 49, there are 90 books by Asian/Asian American Pacific authors that are not about Asians.K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-39072578393653759492015-09-28T12:33:50.989-04:002015-09-28T12:33:50.989-04:00Vicky, thanks for the recommendation. I'll hav...Vicky, thanks for the recommendation. I'll have to check this book out.<br /><br />Another one that sounds vaguely similar is MY MOTHER THE CHEERLEADER by Robert Sharenow, which deals with the daughter of woman who was one of the people who stood on the sidelines to jeer at Ruby Bridges every day. (They were called "cheerleaders.') She begins to question everything she's been taught about her White Chistian superiority when she gets to know a Jewish Communist newspaper reporter who is staying at the boarding house her mother owns.K T Horninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04505891463218329510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-42200499802688231012015-09-28T11:01:31.093-04:002015-09-28T11:01:31.093-04:00KT,
Not that this changes your argument necessari...KT,<br /><br />Not that this changes your argument necessarily, but I think the updated numbers that you have listed for Asian authors at CCBlogC is correct--mathematically impossible, in fact.<br /><br />By 21<br />About 49<br />By but not about 90<br /><br />Obviously, if there are only 21 books to date by Asian authors, then the number for "By but not about" must be equal to or less than 21.<br /><br />I did see the 2014 numbers that Zetta blogged about . . .<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205876924503719240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-12478481762451792982015-09-28T08:53:54.658-04:002015-09-28T08:53:54.658-04:00Thanks for the feedback, Allie! And thanks to all...Thanks for the feedback, Allie! And thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.<br /><br />I didn't mean to minimize the wonderful work that WNDB is doing. Sorry about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-13991049458318175672015-09-28T06:35:49.635-04:002015-09-28T06:35:49.635-04:00In light of this conversation, I'm wondering i...In light of this conversation, I'm wondering if anyone has read NIGHT ON FIRE, by Ronald Kidd. In its synopsis (Billie is transformed when she sees her neighbors attack the Freedom Riders' bus in her hometown of Anniston, Alabama), it seems like just another white-kid-joins-the-Civil-Rights-Movement novel. But it's more Billie's encounters with her Whiteness than it is her assuming any white kid's burden. I can't recall any other middle-grade novel that's taken a white character into such (earned) psychic discomfort. Kidd seems to be doing what Allie is asking white authors to do, albeit in a historical context.Vicky Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16058446546128944129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9160636034192691079.post-54364998231074826002015-09-28T00:59:03.520-04:002015-09-28T00:59:03.520-04:00Great discussion going here, and I agree with this...Great discussion going here, and I agree with this post!<br /><br />Just something I wanted to add, though, is to keep in mind that there's a line that I've often seen overstepped when discussing whiteness, which is treading over the POC (character's) perspective on racism when it really should be THEIR story. I won't name anything specific here, but there are a few books I've read where there was every reason for the protag to be POC and instead it's told from a white character's perspective and their angst about the poor friend who has to endure racism, their viewpoint is upheld as more important, and the worst manifestation of this is in white saviour complex. This is obviously pretty damaging, and in situations like this I'd much rather the author had written from the POC character's perspective instead, even if they made a few mistakes.<br /><br />So that's why I really like what Allie says about 'changing the balance of power' - YES, ultimately that's what the purpose of talking about whiteness is, and everything should stem from that.Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947005368442937489noreply@blogger.com